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Talk:Bolian
FA status Nomination Bolian - complete and comprehensive. 'Nuff said. --Gvsualan 00:36, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT) * Again, I dont think there's many more known about Bolians... 'Nuff said. Ottens 08:49, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT) * Supported Tyrant 15:21, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant Article of the week, again... Haven't they already been on the Main Page weeks ago? is it your standard policy to reuse featured articles? -Qargax 04:13, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) :I don't believe they were used a few weeks ago, as I don't remember them. You may be getting the Bolians confused with Shran, (a guy from a different blue-skinned species) who was featured on the main page a few weeks ago. --From Andoria with Love 05:07, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) :: Don't we have an archive for that stuff? --Alan del Beccio 05:11, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) :Yeah, I checked it out. Bolian was originally suggested to be the AOTW during the week of July 14th, but Kor was chosen instead. So, no, the Bolians were not up a few weeks ago, or at any time I can see, for that matter. --From Andoria with Love 05:33, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC) Shran, there is NO FRACKING WAY I could have mistaken an Andorian for a Bolian. But I could have sworn I saw Bolians on the front page months ago... But don't take it too seriously. I may be wrong. Wait... The talk above this, see it? they were featured april this year. -Qargax 00:20, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC) Removal This article may be complete, but I don't think it really qualifies as "one of MA's best written articles", which is, in my opinion, the definition of a "featured article". Most of it reads like a simple list of unrelated facts. -- Cid Highwind 12:07, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) :I definitely agree with this, and frankly, feel the same way about the Andorian article. The relatively scant content on the Bolian page, most of it anectdotal, hardly makes it a FA in my opinion. And I think both it and the Andorian article get their nominations not really because of the depth or breadth of the content that I believe make FA's stand out, but because people like these species. The Andorian article even had several things in it that I don't believe were supported by canon and yet it made the FA list. Logan 5 13:46, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::I think if we are going to remove them for this reason we should also removed Tellarite, Tholian and Breen. Actually, really all of the species besides the "regs", because all of their articles are built up the same way, complied list of canon references. Jaf 14:06, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)Jaf :I disagree slightly with this. I feel like all those species articles are somehow more robust, with more indepth material. I mean, at least they have all been featured in episodes that revealed numerous facts about them, especially the Breen and Tellarites. Whereas Bolians have never been a major focus of even one episode I can think of and almost all the references are from one or two lines of dialogue in unrelated eps. I suppose I'd have to support keeping the Andorians by this logic, and I'm fine with that. I also acknowledge that it's a personal bias as species with far more content like the Ferengi don't get accepted and yet these do despite the paucity of info on them. Logan 5 14:22, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) :::Is there anything more to say about them? If yes - remove it, if not - oppose. The way how it is said is maybe a reason for editing, but not for removal. --Porthos 15:31, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::::Now we see what happens when no one participates in their God-given right to vote around here. :) The question is, if you don't like it, what are your suggestions to fix it? Clearly if someone has reservations about the status of article they must also have resolutions on how to resolve it. Obviously no one here can begin to repair it without knowing where to begin. Additionally, the fact of the matter is, all we know about the Bolians, Andorians, Breen, Tellarites, Tholians, Gorn, Benzites is a bunch of unrelated facts. That really doesn't give one much to work with -- and keeping that fact in mind, these articles handle that quite well. --Alan del Beccio 18:20, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::Actually, I think a lot of what makes them such good articles is the fact that we had so little to work with in the first place. It makes for a nice challange, I vote '''oppose'. Jaf 19:33, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC)Jaf RE:Gvsualan: It's pretty simple. As I wrote, the article is just a list of unrelated facts, each mentioned in a separate paragraph. This is definitely not what I would call "well-written" (which is part of the definition of "featured articles"). The solution? Rewrite it to make it a more coherent reading. If this is not possible because all we know about Bolians are those incoherent factoids - tough luck, in that case the article shouldn't have become "featured" in the first place. -- Cid Highwind 21:27, 16 Sep 2005 (UTC) ::::Despite the fact everyone here seems to be a critic and no one a doer, I should probably note that I did fumble around with the article a few days back, as it seems I am the only one that somewhat cares about repairing page. I should also mention again, that now we see what happens when no one participates in their God-given right to vote around here. It might also help if the nominator, attempts to contribute on some level to the pages enhancement, we all might be able to help bring it up to par. Thanks. --Alan del Beccio 20:24, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) :Well, I've re-read the article and looked for ways to improve it and honestly I'm not sure how. So much of what's there is unrelated that I can't see how re-writing will make it smoother. In fact, even the relation of some of the material to the headings is loose at best, in my opinion. So I'd like to offer suggestions, or put this in the new PeerReview category, but in the end I'm lead back to my original position: I just don't think there is enough here to turn this into a fully fleshed FA on par with the other species articles. It's complete, sure, but doesn't go much beyond that. Logan 5 21:32, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) :::::I've also read it, and it's seems to be complete. I don't see anything wrong with the article, just that some say it could use more info (being complete, I'm curious what the battle plan is with that...) so I oppose de-FA'd. Or at least move it to peer review. - AJHalliwell 23:13, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) I don't think there's any need for hostilities. The reason for my "non-contribution" is that, frankly, I don't know how to edit that article so that it deserves the FA status it already has for whatever reasons. If all we know about Bolians are those loosely related tidbits, it simply doesn't deserve that status IMO. Featured articles shouldn't simply be complete (as in "listing all known facts"), they should be comprehensive, interesting to read etc. Alan, since this is the second time you are talking about the "god-given right to vote" - apparently, I didn't catch that nomination. If I had, I would have objected at that time, not now, after the fact. That doesn't mean that I don't have the right to voice my concerns now, this is what we have this page for. Seeing that it is nearly impossible to remove FA status from even such an article, you can be sure that I will try to be more active in the nomination process in the future. -- Cid Highwind 23:33, 23 Sep 2005 (UTC) :::: Addressing my attempts to rally support to fix the article by saying "tough luck" really doesn't seem to be an appropriate choice of words from somebody who wishes to contribute. As you can see, I've already attempted to pull it together, and have once again, clearly made some changes that I believe have tied many (not all, but many) related points together. I've also thrown some ideas in there that I can't seem to work out that someone else may be able to tweak, such as the fact that Bolians are always offering, lets say, "free advice"-"know-it-all"-"outspoken"-type personality traits we've commonly seen in Chell, Vadosia, Mot, and Hars Adislo. I'm also pretty sure that with some ad lib or fluff the Culture section can also be brought together more yet. --Alan del Beccio 03:09, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC) :::: Any chance we can wrap this thing up? It has been a solid month since this was nominated and nearly as long since I''' went through and revamped a large portion of it (compare here). Since then, no one has either commented OR assisted, which is rather disappointing. --Alan del Beccio 04:00, 22 Oct 2005 (UTC) ::::::If I get this right we have 2 "support" and 3 "oppose", so if there are no more votes I'll remove this tomorrow as failed. (I tend to oppose too) --Memory 20:30, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC) ::::::'''archived --Memory 18:11, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC) Sources needed Is it possible to add some references to this? I can't tell what is canon and what isn't, much less where it came from in the first place. I added links to what I knew, but it would be a great help, as well as greatly appreciated if we could give references where references are due. Thanks! --FuturamaGuy 03:42, 27 Sep 2004 (CEST) : This page has been on the "most wanted" list for a long time so I am going to take a stab at this. I want to weed out the non-canon, so I italicized what doesnt seem to have a source. Despite the "inuse" heading, if anyone knows of the source for the non-sourced material here-in please dont hesitate to add it. -- Gvsualan 03:27, 11 Dec 2004 (CET) :: It's all canon now. Tyrant 16:56, 16 Jan 2005 (CET)Tyrant Appearances I just added some more episode with Bolian appearances, mostly of Bolians seen on the promenade in DS9 episodes, but also from Star Trek Nemesis (seen at the Riker-Troi wedding) and background appearances from additional TNG episodes. --Jörg 15:37, 17 Sep 2005 (UTC) Federation membership Which is the first episode to clearly demonstrate that the Bolians are members of the Federation? Jaf 03:05, 15 Dec 2005 (UTC)Jaf : Ambassador Vadosia was the Bolian council member to the Federation in .--Tim Thomason 20:18, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC) Cool, thanks. Anyone know of anything older? Jaf 21:21, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC)Jaf Blood sample image A pic of the Bolian blood sample from would be neat in the physiology section, as well as on the blood page, if anyone has it. Jaf 21:21, 19 Dec 2005 (UTC)Jaf Bolian Bank and the New World Economy If Bolians are members of the Federation, and the Federation doesn't use currency, why is there such an important bank on Bolia and why do THEY have a currency? If we go a little beyond canon and examine the Star Trek RPG, it mentions that there exists Federation credits for use of trade and limited in-state commerce (such as buying a trinket on Risa). If so, then again, why need a Bolian currency if there's a Federation currency? Perhaps it's like the Euro and Bolia isn't in the "Credit zone." That would factor into Bolia's relatively recent inclusion into the Fed. So does the Federation have a currency or not? Politics The new thoughts added to the background of the politics section seem fairly grounded, but perhaps Chakotay whipped up the program from the politics he was familiar with when he left the area, 2371? Jaf 18:37, 14 Jan 2006 (UTC)Jaf :Hmm. I'm not sure what to make of that. But he calls it "diplomacy scenario twelve-alpha" Quite the specific title for something he just whipped up. Still, as we explore the Bolians in more detail, they don't seem to quite fit in the Federation. They've known about the Feds for years, but are only recently members. They have their own currency while the rest of the Fed seems to be currency-less. And then there's this bit. Perhaps they are some kind of provisional member or have some kind of special relationship? What we really need is a new series with a Bolian as a main character. Maybe we could sort out all this crazy stuff. --David Youngberg 05:21, 17 Jan 2006 (UTC) It's also possible that there are members of the species that do not follow the government, Ezri's mother does not represent all of Trill after all. Anyone have the dialog handy? Jaf 17:18, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf I broke down that note and did some rewording, I feel any speculation about the program itself as historically accurate and taking place after the occupation of Bajor should be placed at diplomacy scenario 12-alpha. Jaf 16:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf Bolian skin I don't remember a pink Bolian. Rixx is the oddest one, but I think the lighting in that set was a reddish, I'm guessing his skin color is grey. Jaf 16:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf :I think you are right. I went no further than the image in the article. Take a look here vs. here. Grey is probably the best guess given the lighting conditions, and is a lot closer to blue. I'll make the change since I introduced the info. Aholland 18:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC) Representative images Perhaps and Mitena Haro shouldn't be our prime representatives of the species as both are problematic for various reasons. They would cause a fan more trouble then help in locating a Bolian in a scene. Jaf 18:46, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf :They are both atypical. Can't be ignored in the text, but perhaps a bluer and balder one should be pictured as a representative instead. Choose ones you like and go with it. Aholland 18:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC) If we are going to ignor the meta explanation of make-up changing over time and work from 'in universe', wouldn't Chell indicate that their skin tone and texture changes over time to a darker blue with more obvious ridges? Jaf 19:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf :I wouldn't think so. Michael Westmore stated in Star Trek: Aliens & Artifacts that "Bolians are colored different shades of blue in order to portray a variety of skin tones". That is not only a meta explanation, it makes some biological sense as well. Aholland 19:11, 17 March 2006 (UTC) Chell is only one person. Perhaps he has a tan. :) Jaf 19:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf :: i agree, the image choice on this article really sucks. why wasn't this changed? ::: Replaced Rixx with Mot as Mot more typical in coloration. Some rewording. Reordered some events to be more chronological.– StarFire209 00:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC) Bolians and 21st century earth The following was recently added to the article: "The Bolians never appeared in however it was suggested that they had contact with Earth prior the events of that series." Can the citation as to where it was suggested be added? I'm not aware of it myself, or I'd just do so. Thanks! Aholland 20:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC) : is cited. I don't have the script handy, so I'm not sure what's said. Jaf 20:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)Jaf Ah! So here's the context: Janeway says "I've gone through dozens of histories written about 21st century Earth, all of them biased in one way or another. The Vulcans describe First Contact with a savagely illogical race. Ferengi talk about Wall Street as if it were holy ground. The Bolians express dismay at the low quality of Human plumbing." So the literal statement is that an historical text written by the Bolians about 21st Century Earth deplored Human plumbing. The text could have been written in the 21st Century, or the 24th for all we know. But there's the implication. Thanks for the pointer; I'll adjust the article accordingly. Aholland 20:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC) ::The article states that a line in makes a reference to "Bolian-written history of 21st century Earth", and uses this as proof that Bolians knew about Earth prior to Enterprise. I'm not so sure about this. Just because Bolian historians wrote about the history of a place does not mean that the Bolian civilization actually knew of its existence at that point in time. A real world example: Western historians have written about ancient Mesoamerican civilizations going back many thousands of years, but that doesn't mean that actual first contact between Europe and the Americas occured earlier than the 1590s. Now I don't remember the exact context of the line in that episode so I could be interpreting it wrong but as presented here it seems ambiguous. -- 03:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC) :::I think it was ambiguous because of the way the line was in the episode: :::* JANEWAY: "I've gone through dozens of histories written about 21st century Earth, all of them biased in one way or another. The Vulcans describe First Contact with a savagely illogical race. Ferengi talk about Wall Street as if it were holy ground. The Bolians express dismay at the low quality of Human plumbing. And Human historians? Exact same story. Every culture saw it a different way." ::: Since we know first contact with the Ferengi was during the 22nd/24th centuries, as you say, it may be a retrospective writing on the subject, especially when you consider: :::*NEELIX: "Shannon Janeway." :::*JANEWAY: "Where in the world did you find this?" :::*NEELIX: "A Ferengi database." :::*JANEWAY: "Ferengi." :::*NEELIX: "Eleven years ago, one of their historians collected massive amounts of data about the origin of space travel in the Federation. He wanted to market it as a nostalgic gift item." :::*JANEWAY: "I would have been his first customer." :::Clearly other cultures took interest in Human history for various reasons. Even long after First Contact. --Alan del Beccio 04:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC) Removed speculation :Other possible explanations for these statements about their physiology are thus: intercourse by non-bolians with bolians is dangerous because Bolians carry a number of sexually transmitted diseases. They have cartilaginous tongue linings to let them ingest harsh foods. Neelix's comment about the lavatories could be a sign that Bolians are fanatical about hygiene. Their blood is blue because of it's peculiar chemistry, and the transfusion of Vulcan blood to a Bolian may be due to the blood of the former being toxic to the latter. I removed the above speculation. Yowza... --From Andoria with Love 05:40, 5 April 2007 (UTC) The Magnificent Ferengi Anyone know what to make of the short piece of dialogue between and Nog in ? Gaila suggests something easy to start military training like ambushing "a couple of Bolians". Did he say this at random or maybe because Bolians have a reputation for being really bad warriors, what do you think? Kennelly 21:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC) :Difficult to say. He might have just picked any race not considered among the "warrior" races of the Jem'Hadar (who they were practicing against), Klingons, Nausicans, etc. Since they are not human-centric, their choices open up. I would tend to question the idea that Bolians are really bad warriors in general, after all we have the security officer Bolian, and we have seen mutliple members of the Maquis that were Bolians. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC) Bolian cuisine? According to the Bolian page. Bolian cuisine is mentioned in . I just watched that episode carefully and couldn't find any reference to Bolian cuisine. Where, in that episode, is it mentioned, and if it's not, is it mentioned somewhere else? --Mlv 21:48, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :Methinks (and seems to recall) that it was actually in , not Resurrection... -- sulfur 21:53, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :The sequence was something like this: :*Kira: Actually, there's a new Bolian restaurant that's pretty good. :*Shakaar: I've never had Bolian food. :*Kira: I know this isn't going to sound very appetizing, but the meat they use is sort of... aged. :*Shakaar: Aged? :*Kira: Well, partially decayed would be more accurate. But it's really delicious. :I've fixed the reference in the article. -- sulfur 21:56, December 9, 2009 (UTC) I clarified that it's tasty. --Mlv 15:53, December 26, 2009 (UTC) The 'Bolian' in TNG 'Allegiance' In TNG "Allegiance," the 'Bolian' woman Picard encounters is actually one of the aliens. So this is not an example of a Bolian with hair. But - Picard didn't seem to find anything strange about her having hair, so chances are he had seen actual Bolians with hair. :Yes. Is there a point to this other than posting and explaining away a nitpick?--31dot 11:44, February 22, 2011 (UTC) Bolian Bottle in ENT: "Rajiin" So window shopping on eBay for ''Star Trek prop''s came up with this: STAR TREK ENTERPRISE PROP IAW BAZAAR JAR LOT ITS A WRAP -- they are mentioned to be from and -- the first appears to be in the Civilization species' language, the other appears to be in the Bolian language (and is reminiscent of the Bank of Bolias logo even.) I hope there wouldn't be any objection to mention of this in the article. - AJ Halliwell 03:21, July 19, 2011 (UTC) Use of boxes/canon Is there a reason there are so many boxes with seemingly non-canon/possibly speculative viewpoints? In particular, why is the novel 'Pathways' mentioned, and why is this sentence present: 'However, as membership likely does not encompass whole species, membership remains a possibility.' Are there sources for this? It could be worded better too. AnonyQ 14:39, July 29, 2011 (UTC) : Regarding the statement, it is true that not all members of a race will be considered to be Federation members. For example, there were the genetically engineered group in 'The Masterpiece Society', the group from the 'Up the Long Ladder' and those from 'The Ensigns of Command'. They were all Human but not Federation members, because their worlds weren't members of the Federation. 12:06, August 25, 2011 (UTC) Gin connection? I know Bolians are named for Cliff Bole but are they blue as a nod to Bols' Gin which is famously blue in colour?Lt.Lovett (talk) 20:41, December 1, 2013 (UTC) :I have not heard of any such reference. 31dot (talk) 21:22, December 1, 2013 (UTC)